Database Buddies Project Joanne Glassford & Ann Montgomery Douglas Elementary School

Article Contents Getting Started Benefits Advice Classroom Communities Roles & Relationships Database Project Dream Project Connecting Parents Juna Bihl Mitzie Barnette Student Database Buddies

Joanne Glassford and her buddies at Douglas Elementary School in Raleigh are proud of the telecommunications projects that they do every year with fifth graders. Database Buddies is a very challenging but rewarding project that pays off big from the creative integration of mathematics, language arts, and technology. In this interview, Joanne, the technology specialist, and one of the fifth grade teaching team, Ann Montgomery, talk about their work in technology and the results they have seen.

MIDtech (MT): How long have you two been working together?

Montgomery: I think this is our fifth year that we've done projects.

MT: Tell me a little, Ann, about how you got into technology. Do you remember the very first time you touched a computer?

Montgomery: [laughter]Yes, it was probably the old Apple computer simply because they were in the classrooms. This was probably eighteen years ago or more. There were very few programs that were already there. I took a course on how to do your own little program, and I was so bogged down with all of the steps that I never used it in class. But when I really started using computers with children was when I came to Douglas. It's part of the curriculum that the kids do all of these things so I had to quickly learn to do it myself.

MT: When did you come to Douglas?

Montgomery: Six years ago.

MT: Did technology come naturally to you? Are you like a geek or a real whiz.

Montgomery: [Laughter] Joanne can tell you that I have to watch it being done and then I have to have the steps that I have to follow each time in writing. Because unless I do it everyday I don't remember the steps.

MT: That's a very good point.

Glassford: But she has grown from here [sweeping hand motion] all the way over to here.

Montgomery: You're kind.

Glassford: She's come so far. She really has.

MT: What do you think made the difference? What made you take that leap [sweeping hand motion]?

Montgomery: It's harder now to get children to want to learn. They have been so entertained by TV and video games that unless you make the learning more interesting to them ­ they don't really care if the period is after the sentence or if the words are spelled correctly. They are interested in getting done so they can go on to the next one.

MT: So you made the leap into technology for your kids?

Montgomery: It was for the kids. I think they look forward to using the computers. The first project that we did was with the novel, and I found that that class was really motivated if they were communicating with kids in another class. They did not want to appear to be stupid. They wanted to make it appear as if they knew more than the other class did so they wanted every word spelled correctly and all the capital letters and all the punctuation. They did a very good job of proofreading for each other. That's a chore that we had worked on for their writing anyway, but they really took a bigger interest if we were going to share with other classes.

MT: They made it seem real. It was real.

Montgomery: It was for a real purpose rather than just doing it for the teacher.

Glassford: The audience makes a difference.

MT: Joanne, how about you. You've made a giant leap here working with technology all the time. How did you get started?

Joanne: I actually started in 1981. We didn't have computers when I went to college. So in 1981 I was hearing all of this information about programming. I was very curious about it so I went to State and I took a Pascal programming course. And I absolutely loved it. In 1982 I was working in Title I reading, and they put computers in some of the schools as pilot sites. I was selected to be one of those people to have a pilot site. It was a wonderful opportunity. That was with the old Apples. So that was actually when I first started using them in an educational setting. That was with remedial students. So we got two computers in our classroom and did a lot of things with them. After that in 1988 I entered the program at State. I just loved it there. They did not have technology positions in the schools and still don't as such ­ you have to figure out within your school how to create such a position. Regardless, I have tried to work technology in at both of the schools where I have worked since that was my background and because it is in the Standard Course of Study. Third grade starts with keyboarding. Fourth grade is basically word processing and fifth grade is database, telecommunications and word processing. Teachers can't be expected to just do technology if they haven't had any training in it. I felt I had an obligation since I had the background. So I tried to do what I could to help teachers make those connections with the curriculum.

MT: Did you have a natural inclination?

Glassford: I just loved it after I got into it.

MT: What was the big turn-on for you?

Glassford: The programming is figuring out ­ getting from the beginning to the end. I love stuff like that. It's like a puzzle. That's just my thing.

MT: It's all been a puzzle to me. [Laughter] I know, Ann, that you said what really got you hooked on technology was that the kids had a real purpose and a real audience. What would you say has been the most fulfilling thing about using technology?

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Montgomery: I think for me not the fact that it is technology itself but because the children are working through technology; they are excited, and every child pays attention to what you're doing. I know that the very first year that I did the project ­ Joanne and I both were in the lab together every time there was a lab lesson for Database Buddies. A child who never did any critical thinking in class was able to figure out something that we were doing. I can't remember now the exact lesson we were on. But Joanne asked a question and this little girl who never came up with anything just sort of lit up and explained everything so well. We both were just in shock. And because it does interest every child ­ that's what has really kept me going.

Glassford: I think that for me what's so fulfilling about technology is that you can integrate the technology with whatever you are doing. So the kids see the purpose for it and it is not like a separate entity. It is going to prepare them for their future. They know that computers are everywhere, and they can see how technology can help them learn what they need to learn.

MT: Have you guys been rehearsing? You speak in complete sound bytes. It's wonderful!

Montgomery: This is part of our jobs ­ communication.

Glassford: We've done a lot of conferences and I think that probably helps.

MT: It shows. I think that you're very reflective about what it is that you're doing. How about advice? Hopefully, teachers who would be tuning into this website would be all along the continuum as far as people who just want another idea to people who are saying, "Oh, my gosh, how do I get started here?" What would be your advice for a newbie ­ maybe someone who doesn't have a lot of support at their school and is just wondering, "Where do I start?"

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Montgomery: Start simple. Start with a very simple project and be sure that if your are communicating with another class that you have talked with that teacher and you have written down step by step, date by date, exactly what is going to happen, and that you both have the expertise on each end to carry it through.

Glassford: And that you have compatible word processors.

Montgomery: That you have a modem.

Glassford: Yes, that you have a modem and some telecommunications software.

MT: Do you think that a project like Database Buddies or like the novel project that enables you to reach out to another school and make contact ­ is that a fairly safe and easy way to get into it.

Montgomery: The novel would be a starter, and then build into something more complex like Database Buddies. I think that if a person has never worked very much with computers or done a project like that with their class then they would be overwhelmed to start out with Database Buddies.

MT: That's good advice.

Glassford: The Database Buddies project is a deeply integrated project that takes a lot of effort on the classroom teacher's part to do that integration. There are lots of classroom activities that go along with it. Where with the novel, it is basically just reading the book and the integrationis is basically just the language arts. The children send questions back and forth like a scavenger hunt. That's mainly what's done with that project. I guess what I am trying to say is that you would want a project to start with that is not integrated as much as Database Buddies and doesn't require as much effort on the classroom teacher's part.

MT: So if you jumped right into Database Buddies, you would find that it's pretty deep. You should probably start out in a little more shallow water.

Montgomery: First of all you have to know how to use the computer and how to do telecommunications. But then you also have to understand all of the workings of a database which a lot of people don't understand. And even if you understand it yourself, how do you get all that across to children in a method that they then can understand and use later?

MT: I think that's why Ellen Vasu and MIDTech were so interested in this project because it is highly integrated and sort of the next level up in terms of the involvement of teachers and kids.

Glassford: It also integrates the whole data collection strand in math. All of that is built into the lessons. One of the first things that you do when you have collected your data and you have actually entered it in the fields is that you bring that back in the classroom and make a double bar graph. You then compare your own data that you kept a tally of that. You do a double bar graph with your class and the second bar is the mystery class. Every time you communicate you bring data back to the classroom and at some point you analyze it. It may be a double bar graph. It may be a Venn diagram. What else, Ann? They do probability. Everything that is in their data collection strand is incorporated into this project.

Montgomery: Range, median, mode . . .

Glassford: Yes, range, median, and mode . . . so that's a strand that probably is one of the more difficult for the kids to see how it really applies very day. But in this way they can.

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MT: That's a lot of good information about the database buddies. It isn't just that you bring technology in and things change. How do you see technology as one of many factors that lead to changes in the classroom. What happens to the classroom context as far as teachers working together, kids working together, the real community that is built in the classroom. What do you see that changes in the classroom when technology is introduced?

Glassford: For one thing I think with this project a lot of cooperative learning which was already happening anyway. This was just a chance for that to continue to happen because they do this project in cooperative learning groups. And they do the novel project in groups so they have to work together.

Montgomery: I also have on my classroom computer program this year a program for math and geometry that I never had before. Now the students all of a sudden absolutely love geometry because they want a chance to get on the computer and figure things out. So it's all sorts of fields that you can get the kids interested in.

MT: It seems we always have a tendency to wear rose-colored glasses when we introduce innovations. Are there any down sides to or anything to be aware of and deal with as you introduce technology?

Montgomery: Yes, number one, the teacher has to be comfortable with the technology. She has to be comfortable with all of the programs. You have to try and make it available to every student which is sometimes difficult because of the many things that are going on in the school day. With all of the different levels that you have in one classroom, one particular project may be extremely difficult for some children so you have to be ready to give lots of reinforcement.

MT: How about in terms of the interaction of the social context and technology? Any changes with technology?

Montgomery: I think the kids are more interested in helping each other in cooperative groups than they might be for even a science project. Because this is something they are already enjoying. It's theirs. They want it to be right, so they will work together. My class is just real good anyway. They are not extremely critical of each other. Where they might be with some social studies project here they are more likely to say that, "We need to do it like this." Rather than saying, "Your idea is not good." This is a reason to do it better. When we formulate the questions to send to the other class, we meet first in small groups and then in one big group. The children come up with some of the most wonderful reasons why you should or should not ask a particular question. They have to back up their ideas ­ not with saying his idea is stupid but rather, "I don't think that we should use that question because it is not the kind of information that will help us identify our buddies. They are being kind to each other as they also criticize. But it's constructive criticism and it leads them to do some more indepth thinking. Instead of just saying, "Do you wear a watch?" considering "Will that really help us identify the person when he comes into the room?"

MT: It sounds like interpersonal skills meets technology here. Tell me something, at this point, while you have been working on this project, how is the relationship between a classroom teacher and the technology support person and how do you see that growing and how that can be encouraged.

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Glassford: With Ann, it's great. I hear technology teachers at other schools saying, "The teachers expect me to do all the technology. They expect me to be in the labs and do all of their labs. To me the purpose of a technology teacher is to get classroom teachers started and develop a comfort level with it so they can move on and it becomes their own. And that's how it has been with Ann. She has been willing to take it on herself and she has grown so much herself. I am so proud of her. I don't have to be in the lab with her this year because she can do all of this on her own. So to me ­ that's what you're looking for instead of the technology teacher being the technology teacher, I think you want that to become the classroom teacher's territory.

Montgomery: It is time consuming on the part of both. When the technology specialist has to take this green person along. Joanne has been patient to make sure that I understood it all and that I had it all in writing. The first year of the project, she did all of the labs. I was just there to observe and to help. She did part of the classroom activities and I did part of them. We spent many afternoons discussing, "This happened . . . Why did it happen? How can we prevent it from happening again?" So, anyone who is interested in a project has to be willing to put a lot of time into working out the bugs in whatever project it is.

MT: Tell me a little about this evolution ­ now there is a full-time technology person here?

Montgomery and Glassford: Half time.

MT: Oh, it's half time. But Joanne is here full time?

Glassford: Half time technology and half time instructional resource teacher.

MT: Okay, I see. But still that's an advantage over many schools I would think

Glassford: Yes, although a lot of schools have in different ways created at least a half-time and in some cases, a full-time position in technology. They see the need before the legislature recognizes that it is there.

Montgomery: And it varies from school to school. Occasionally it will be that they will take some funds for a specialist. Sometimes the PTA will raise money. Sometimes the money comes from what may be an assistant position that the teachers choose to do without so the money can go to support this. Someone in technology is supporting not only the teachers but every student so it's really important. That's how we feel at our school.

MT: Anything else that you can think of that may help other teachers and technology specialists as they begin to work together?

Montgomery: Just to be patient. [laughter] Joanne has had to be patient with me.

Glassford: It just takes a lot of collaboration, and you have to work as a team. You can't work independently and expect everything to come together in terms of collaborative projects.

Montgomery: And you also need the support of the principal and the scheduling committee. Normally every class in our school has one computer lab time per week. When we developed the projects we realized that whatever class was doing the project would need two times per week for the eleven-week period of the project. Our scheduling committee was very positive and made sure that that occurred. This year the scheduling specialist made sure that there were two extra times per week set aside for fifth grade because all three of our fifth grade classes do telecommunications projects.

MT: I notice that you have two computers in your classroom.

Montgomery: This one is just an old Apple that has a few programs that still work. Every classroom in the building has at least one computer that is hooked to the network. This morning a child who was absent on the day that we did our graph came in. I had written notes to her, saying, "You need to do your graph. You need to color your sort." And when she showed me her sort, I said, "Now this sort isn't correct so you'll have to redo it." So we were able to go ahead and do it without waiting for lab time. She just stayed and redid it with the written directions.

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MT: How about this project, Database Buddies, that you are collaborating on now. Where the idea came from? Anything about its conception and how it has grown?

Glassford: I was given an article [Teaching Children Math. October, 1994] about Database Buddies at one of my meetings at the Central Office. It was called Data Buddies and it was aimed toward second grade. It didn't involve any technology. But from reading it, and I shared it with fifth grade teachers, we thought that we could revise it so we could fit it into the fifth grade curriculum. The article had a mystery buddy and they collected data to support their data collection in math. They would ask questions back and forth ­ no computers but just regular mail. And then they would, from the data they collected, draw a life size picture by tracing someone in their class who they thought was about that size. They would draw a life size picture and write a paragraph of what they thought that buddy looked like. And then they would meet. It was a simple idea and we thought that we could really expand on it and make it a more sophiscated project. It fit beautifully in our data collection strand in math.

Montgomery: The first year we had the kids just take the information they had and try to do a scale drawing. That was very difficult. So the second year, we took a little bit better look at the curriculum. Our curriculum says they should be able to take a picture and enlarge it or take a picture and reduce it. Our art teacher was kind enough to draw a scale drawing of a small body frame, a large body frame and a medium body frame. So we give that to the children ­ the little drawing and once they find out the information from their buddy they can enlarge that and put in the details of the length of hair, color of hair, color of eyes and so forth. So we had to make a few changes to make it better fit the kids as we've moved along.

MT: It sounds like the project has really evolved. How old is this project?

Glassford: This is its third year. Have you seen the notebook and the video?

MT: No, not yet. So does every teacher in the project have a notebook? Is that how it works?

Glassford: It's day by day lesson plans, step by step, what's to be done ­ in the classroom and in the lab.

MT: Wow, this is quite a project. Let me ask you if there are any websites that you may have found helpful in doing this project or favorite websites that you have?

Glassford: Unfortunately our school is having trouble. We have a service provider but the computer we have it on is in the lab, and, seemingly, it is not powerful enough to carry the new program that they sent us from BellSouth. So we are trying to work on that through the technicians at Central Office but we are not getting very far with it. So right now our other option is to try and run a phone line into Ann's room and put it on her computer because her computer would run it.

Montgomery: Very slowly.

Glassford: Minimum speed is 1440 and that's what she has. However we haven't been able to figure out how to hook it up yet. We can't even find where it hooks up. It says that there is a modem port on this computer but on the back there is no evidence of the phone line connection.

Glassford: So Ann, poor thing, is doing a telecommunications project but on her end is having to do it by fax so far ­ which is very unfortunate.

MT: This is real life in schools.

Glassford: Yes, it is. You just deal with those problems.

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MT: Imagine Bill Gates is funding your dream project. What would you guys dream up?

Montgomery: I'd like a computer for every child and an unlimited amount of money to buy software. I really think that if you had every child on a computer that they can move at their own rate and their own ability. It would take an awful lot of work for each teacher to help the children use the proper software or the proper sites that they can go to. It can be frustrating at times if you have this wonderful technology to use and you only have a few minutes in the computer lab to use it or you have one computer. And every computer would be powerful enough for that Southern Bell connection.

Glassford: Yes, for direct connection to the Web for everyone and everyone would have access to a printer.

MT: We'll have to pass this URL on to Bill Gates.

Glassford: Actually when I was at another elementary school we proposed to him ­ no, this was to Perot when he was running for president. We sent a letter to him and asked him for some help to fund this huge technology project at our school. And we never heard from him. I had said, "What can it hurt? All you can do is ask for it."

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MT: Sure, it was worth a try! You never know. Something might just click. Have you had any feedback from other teachers, or parents, or kids who have moved on to other schools having working on this project ­ anything about what it meant to them?

Montgomery: Lots and lots of positive feedback from parents. The parents are really impressed. The parent who is working in the lab with it this year has really enjoyed it. She had said, "I don't think I should come. I'm not very good with computers." I said, "Basically I want you to help me with crowd control but you can learn about computers as you do it." And she has enjoyed it so much. She said, "I never had anything like this in fifth grade!" Every parent has been very enthused about the project.

Glassford: The parents of a student in one of the teacher's classes that did it two years ago went out and bought a computer for their home because their child was just becoming so enthused with this whole technology thing. And kids go with us to conferences. We take two children to each conference and they do about 50% of the presentation. Those parents just really get excited and support it.

Montgomery: Two years ago we did a technology night here at school and the fifth graders were really were the showcase. They showed this project off. They also showed off our "Windows on Science" project. They showed our lab and the programs that we have there. Also the Accelerated Reader program where the children read books and take tests. The parents were very very pleased with all of that.

Glassford: The open area that I showed you was filled with chairs ­ it was full and people were standing in the back.

MT: Oh, that's wonderful. What a turnout!

Montgomery: I was impressed. I was surprised.

MT: Thanks so much for telling us about your telecommunications projects. Your comments will give a personal touch ­ a human touch ­ to the lesson plans we feature on the site. And when you get your Internet service worked out, teachers can email you to ask questions and learn more about doing these projects!

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